MM Lee on hard truths

We are not vulnerable? They can besiege you. You'll be dead

Hard Truths will be launched by Singapore Press Holdings' book publishing subsidiary Straits Times Press on Friday. It is based on 16 interviews with Minister Mentor Lee Kuan Yew. We reproduce here excerpts on MM Lee's views on Singapore and being Singaporean.

Lee was hardly the easiest person to interview. He was blunt at times, and often cantankerous and combative. Although he had agreed to a no-holds-barred interview format, he did not conceal his annoyance when he felt that the questions reflected perspectives that he had no patience for.
The journalists before him then seemed to become, in his eyes, surrogates for his ideological opponents and were dressed down accordingly. On other occasions, though, he seemed to relish the exercise, sometimes prefacing an extended discourse with 'Have I told you this story?' or coming prepared with a clutch of anecdotes and a choice phrase for the week.
Visible too were the signs of a man coping with the frailties of age. One day, he shuffled in wearing sandals. His toes had an infection. After a trip to Malaysia, where he had fallen off an exercise bicycle in his hotel in Kuantan, he appeared with an improvised therapeutic device: a heating pad strapped to his leg with neon-coloured skipping ropes.
After converting to a floor bike, his stiffness moved to his back and the pad followed. Several times, he would use a spritzer to moisten his parched throat.
Once, during a trip to Armenia, he developed pneumonia as he was having problems swallowing and food had gone down his windpipe.
Not once, however, did he lament about being tired or weary. The interviews drew not only from his surfeit of memories, but also from the latest developments in Asia and the world. He was obviously keeping abreast of things, whether it was China's green energy ambitions or the elections in Japan. While he was less in command of the specific details of domestic policies, he was more than familiar with their general thrust. He kept himself scrupulously up to date on world events. He read the papers every day and in the office, his radio would always be tuned to the BBC World News Service.
At the final interview, we asked him about the leaders he admired the most. In past speeches and his memoirs, he had mentioned Deng Xiaoping. This time, he also named Charles de Gaulle, the president of the French Fifth Republic, and Winston Churchill, Britain's wartime prime minister.
He quoted Churchill's famous 'We shall fight on the beaches' speech. He recounted how de Gaulle had fought the odds to rouse and rally his people at times of near-defeat.
As he talked, his eyes gleamed, he gritted his teeth. He clenched both his hands into fists and his voice curdled in his throat before spilling forth. In that moment, the same fierce determination he showed as a young leader in the 1950s and 1960s when rallying his own people flashed across his face.
One remembered all over again that Lee was born a fighter. In that moment too, one could see the scale of the terrain that he pictured himself battling in. Not for him the quotidian concerns of a country content with its creature comforts. This was a leader who had overseen events unfold in grand terms, life and death, danger and escape, success and failure - of a people, of a country.
Singapore is not in that moment of epic change. Will it have in its sinews the same fighting spirit as its founding father when that time comes? It is a question only the young can answer.


Q Some commentators say that you have created Singapore in your image, including 'always living in fear of a catastrophe'. Why are you so worried that it could all fail?
I'm concerned that Singaporeans assume that Singapore is a normal country, that we can be compared to Denmark or New Zealand or even Liechtenstein or Luxembourg. We are in a very turbulent region. If we do not have a government and a people that differentiate themselves from the rest of the neighbourhood in a positive way and can defend ourselves, Singapore will cease to exist.
It's not the view of just my generation but also those who have come into Defence, Foreign Affairs ministries and those who have studied the position. Whether it's Ng Eng Hen, who was a surgeon, or Raymond Lim, formerly an academic and a lawyer by training, or Vivian Balakrishnan, an eye surgeon, they all understand now the circumstances that conscribe us. If we ignore those circumstances, we'll go down the drain.
We have not got neighbours who want to help us prosper. When we prospered, they for many years believed we were living off their resources. It was only when they became aware that our economic policy of welcoming foreign investments made the difference that they were sufficiently convinced to also do likewise.
We are an upstart in this region because we survived for so long and I believe we can survive easily another 50 to 100 years given the international environment, provided we have a strong system that enables us to maximise our chances.

Q What do you mean by a 'strong system'? Is it another phrase for the People's Action Party (PAP) continuing to be in power?
Whether it's the PAP or any other government does not interest me. I'm beyond that phase. I'm not out here to justify the PAP or the present government. I want to get across just how profound is this question of leadership and people and the ethical and philosophical beliefs of the leadership and the people.

Q Are we really as vulnerable as you suggest? Critics would say you make things seem so dire that so many things practised elsewhere, including in small countries, such as political competition, will not be available here.
No, we are not preventing competition. What we are preventing is duds getting into Parliament and government. Any person of quality, we welcome him but we don't want duds. We don't want Chee Soon Juan, or J.B. Jeyaretnam. They're not going to build the country. But if any serious man turns up and forms an alternative equal to us, I say, 'Good'. Then we are getting a proper alternative. But look at the candidates they put up.
Now, are we not vulnerable? If we are not vulnerable, why do we spend 5 to 6 per cent of GDP (gross domestic product) year after year on defence? Are we mad? This is a frugal government, you know that well.
We dug a deep tunnel for the sewers at the cost of $3.65 billion in order to use the sewage water for Newater, to be independent.
We are not vulnerable? They can besiege you. You'll be dead. Your sea lanes are cut off and your business comes to a halt. What is our reply? Security Council, plus defence capabilities of our own, plus the Security Framework Agreement with the Americans.
They stopped sand. Why? To conscribe us. As Mahathir (former Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad) says, 'Even at their present size they are trouble, you let them grow some more they will be more trouble'. We've got friendly neighbours? Grow up.
Why would we put a strong minister in Defence if it's not important? He's the strongest minister in the Cabinet next to the PM, toughest, most capable. We have always put a strong man there. Do we parade our vulnerabilities? We are living in an adult world. Why do we have peace? Because it is not cost-free if you hit us. If you hit us we will hit you and the damage may be more on your side.

Q But this point about not being a normal country...
Forgive me for saying this: Assuming that I'm just nearly as intelligent as you are, but I've lived more than 85 years and I've been through all these ups and downs and I've spent all my life since the age of 32 figuring out how to make this place work, right?
First, I believed and said the only way it could work was to join Malaya because otherwise we cannot live. Our water, our raw materials, imports, much of the exports come from Malaya. That was at that time. We couldn't get to Malaya because the Tunku didn't want the Chinese population.
We worked around that and we joined Malaysia. Then we found ourselves trapped, from a communist Singapore to a Malay-ultra Malaysia. Has Malaysia changed? How has it changed?
Why did I break down when we got out on the 9th of August? Because I left behind tens of thousands of people who had joined our rallies, and I knew that they were going to be handicapped, again a minority and leaderless. We provided the leadership. So when you tell me we're not vulnerable, I say, 'Oh, God!'
You speak to the SAF (Singapore Armed Forces) commanders. Why do they do this - two years of every young man's life, 4, 5 to 6 per cent of GDP and a frugal government that builds up reserves? We do this because of hallucinations? Or because that's the only way we can be left alone to survive and prosper?
Why do you think we spent all this effort to solve our water problem until we became specialists in water? Mahathir knew we needed Johor water. So when the water agreement was going to end in 2011 for Tebrau and Skudai, we knew we would be short. Then we discovered Newater. He thought we were bluffing. You say we're not vulnerable?
We should not gloss over our worries. They are real problems. And we are what we are because we can stand up for ourselves. If we can't, we've had it. The Security Council passes resolutions. So what? Who goes to Kuwait's rescue? The US. Why? Because of oil. Why? Because next stop would be Saudi Arabia.
Who's coming to our rescue because of water? The US? No. We rescue ourselves. Either the media grows up, especially the young reporters, or we're going to bring up a generation that lives in a dream world of security when none exists...
I had to make this society produce results, then we will become prosperous, then we can have a strong defence, and the world has a place for us. If you believe we're like Norway or Sweden or Denmark, then we won't survive.
Singapore is an 80-storey building on marshy land. We've learnt how to put in stakes and floats so we can go up for another 20, maybe over a hundred storeys. Provided you understand and ensure that the foundation is strong. Crucial is interracial, interreligious harmony. Without that, quarrelling with one another, we are doomed.

Q Do you worry about this place after you are no longer around?
After I'm dead?

Q I mean, all these calculations...
No, all these calculations have been discussed and re-discussed.

Q But they originate from you.
Yes, but every member of the Cabinet and definitely every defence minister and all the critical ministers understand exactly what our position is.

Q But the external situation will change. There will be new challenges and new calculations will have to be done. Original thinking will be required.
But they have the capabilities. They may not be found all in one man. But it wasn't in me alone. I had a group of men who together had multi-sided perspectives, like a Rubik's Cube.

Q It's not tested, their capacity for original thinking.
How can you say it's not tested? They are getting out of this recession with great skill. They are handling it with great skill. I'm just standing by seeing that this is all right. They worked out the solution.
I did not, I cannot read the facts and figures of the Ministry of Finance and MTI (Ministry of Trade and Industry) and EDB (Economic Development Board) in detail. I had to read them when I was Prime Minister, but I'm not any longer. I look ahead for over-the-horizon problems and opportunities.

Look out for more exclusive excerpts in The Straits Times and The Sunday Times next weekend.

Interracial harmony crucial

'Singapore is an 80-storey building on marshy land. We've learnt how to put in stakes and floats so we can go up for another 20, maybe over a hundred storeys. Provided you understand and ensure that the foundation is strong. Crucial is interracial, interreligious harmony. Without that, quarrelling with one another, we are doomed.'

MM LEE KUAN YEW

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A FOREWORD BY MM LEE

A 'broken record' that bears being heard

My abiding concern for Singapore arises from my belief that the younger generation, especially those below 35, had never seen the harsh economic conditions. They therefore do not know the threats we face from neighbouring countries.
For example, on our National Day, Aug 9, 1991, the Malaysian and the Indonesian armed forces held joint exercises at Kota Tinggi with parachute drops. Hence we mobilised our forces, in addition to forces parading for the National Day celebrations. I did not believe they wanted to invade us, but they wanted to intimidate and con us, so that we know our place at the bottom of the pecking order in the region.
We need a sturdy, strong and capable SAF, not only to defend Singapore but return blow for blow when necessary. If we do not have this strong SAF, we are vulnerable to all kinds of pressures from both Malaysia and Indonesia.
To have such an SAF, we need a robust economy that is not easily put off-course by external shocks. The economy needs constant renewal of its structure and of the type of industries and services it attracts, those that require higher skills to match a better-educated population. We have been successful for the present in attracting investments.
So we have had to bring in immigrants and foreign workers from Malaysia, China, India and the region. If we do not have these immigrants and foreign workers, the economic opportunities will pass us by. To miss these investments would be stupid. Every major investment strengthens and expands the base of our economy and makes it less likely that we will be badly affected by a downturn in any particular sector.
The economy and defence are closely interlinked. Without strong economic growth, we cannot keep up the kind of 3G SAF, one that every few years has to renew its equipment with new-generation missiles, ships, aircraft and submarines. We need the sea lanes to Singapore to be open; hence a capable navy is crucial.
These are sensitive subjects that we cannot talk freely about because they would provoke our neighbours. But never forget that the more prosperous and vibrant we are, the more the angst of the people in our region. Our city skyline is ever-changing. We now have one of the most splendid city centres in the world, a marina equivalent to the Piazza in Venice.
That is what two famous city planners advised us to do - Kenzo Tange of Japan, and I.M. Pei of China (and United States). Because of their separate and independent advice, we reclaimed the bay and made the marina smaller so that each side can see the other side and so it becomes an attractive piazza, and not a huge bay.
I wrote a few chapters for a third volume of my memoirs to convince the younger generation that if we are weak, either in our economy or in our armed forces, we are at risk. We are safe because we are sturdy and robust.
I sent these few chapters I had written to (Straits Times editor) Han Fook Kwang. He replied that if I write my thoughts in that way, the younger generation will say, 'Ah, it is the same old tune'. He and his colleagues suggested that they put hard questions to me, the kind of doubts and disbeliefs that they have gathered in feedback from a younger generation, and some that they themselves had. They suggested they confront me with these hard questions and get my answers on them.
I hope this book has achieved that purpose. I spent many hours spread over several months. The authors have put them in question-and-answer format so that they do not paraphrase my words.
My main message is: If you think I am just playing a broken record, you may live to regret it. I have lived through many economic and political crises in the region and the world. These have crystallised some fundamental truths for me that we forget or ignore at our peril.
Without a strong economy, there can be no strong defence. Without a strong defence, there will be no Singapore. It will become a satellite, cowed and intimidated by its neighbours. To maintain a strong economy and a strong defence all on a narrow base of a small island with over four million people, the government must be led by the ablest, most dedicated and toughest.
The task will become more complex as a more educated and confident electorate believe that Singapore has created a sturdy base and need not be as vulnerable as before. What will never change is that only the best can lead and secure such a Singapore.


My main message is: If you think I am just playing a broken record, you may live to regret it. I have lived through many economic and political crises in the region and the world. These have crystallised some fundamental truths for me that we forget or ignore at our peril. Without a strong economy, there can be no strong defence. Without a strong defence, there will be no Singapore.
MM Lee Kuan Yew

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ON BEING SINGAPOREAN
Whoever joins us, is part of us

Q You described Singapore as a nation in transition, given its young history where we do not have a common language, culture or geography. What must Singapore be like before you consider it a nation?
There must be a sense of self, a sense of identity, that you are prepared to die for your country, that you're prepared to die for one another. Just look at the Chinese, how many times they've been invaded, but they have re-created themselves when the invaders got weak because there is that cohesiveness: same language, same culture and the same Han race.
Are we the same language, same culture? No. We have adopted one language which is a foreign language, like the West Indies or some African countries which have adopted English but they are not one nation. If we lose our second language, we lose all sense of our identity, not just the Singaporean. You don't create a nation in 45 years.

Q Is there a worry that the influx of foreigners into Singapore will further dilute the national identity we're trying to build?
Maybe, but what's the choice? I keep on saying to Singaporeans, please have two children at least, if possible three. They have not responded.

Q At the risk of sounding sentimental, is there anything emotional about being Singaporean?
I went to Perth and met the Singaporeans who have settled there. They fondly remember Singapore. The man who organised the gathering has kept his son's passport as insurance. The son graduated from a university in Perth and was working as an accountant for one of the big firms. I said, 'Why do you keep the Singapore citizenship?' He said, 'Well, he went back to do his NS, he wants to make sure he's got an alternative in case there's a downturn here.'
He came back and did his NS, but his family is there. If he marries an Australian girl, if they're jobless there, he'll bring his Australian wife here. Supposing Perth became dry, with climate change, they may decide to come back. We are in a world of transition. The old patterns no longer hold.

Q What constitutes the Singapore identity? How would you pick out a Singaporean in a crowd?
My definition of a Singaporean, which will make us different from any others, is that we accept that whoever joins us is part of us. And that's an American concept. You can keep your name, Brzezinski, Berlusconi, whatever it is, you have come, join me, you are American. We need talent, we accept them. That must be our defining attribute.
If we don't have that attribute, are we going to have only those who are like us, Chinese from China like us? Indians from India like us? Malays from Malaysia are different from us now. In time, people from China, India or elsewhere come here, they change. That's a defining attribute. English will be our working language, and you keep your mother tongue. It may not be as good as your English but if you need to do business with China or India or Malaysia or Indonesia, you can ramp it up.

Q Many Americans are willing to die for their country, which they believe is a land of opportunity for people of all kinds. Is that how you see Singapore?
No, it's more than that. This is a near miracle. When you come in, you are joining an exceptionally outstanding organisation. It's not an ordinary organisation that has created this. You're joining something very special. It came about by a stroke of luck, if you like, plus hard work, plus an imaginative, original team. And I think we can carry on. Singapore can only stay secure and stable, provided it's outstanding.

Q When you were growing up, you were first a British subject, then a Japanese subject and then you were Malayan. At what point did you see yourself as a Singaporean and what does being Singaporean mean to you?
I'm not a typical Singaporean. Accidentally I created this entity called Singapore and it resulted in the Singaporean. I grew up, yes, as a British subject. My father was working first in Singapore.
My grandfather was a purser onboard Heap Eng Mo Shipping Line, belonging to Java's Sugar King Oei Tiong Ham, and he became the agent and power of attorney in Singapore. He made a fortune out of trade. He married my grandmother in Semarang and brought her here. My father was born in Semarang. As a child, he was brought here. Because his father was a British subject, he was born a British subject.
So when I was a child in Neil Road, which was then a posh area, we had Javanese servants in the house because they're harder working than the Malays. My grandmother spoke Javanese. Did I consider myself a Singaporean? No.
Then my father worked for Shell and he was sent to Johor and Batu Pahat and Kuantan. During school holidays, I used to go up, and you know, in those days, it was all one administration. You just drove through in a car, no customs, no immigration. I thought of myself as a Malayan.
But the Malays in Malaysia did not think of the Chinese and the Indians as belonging to Malaya. You are orang tumpangan, lodgers, so we can be turfed out. When we got turfed out, we had to create a Singapore identity. You've asked me what are the key attributes, I said those are the basic attributes. Without those attributes, Singapore cannot survive. If we are at odds with each other, we won't survive.

Q So in the beginning, being Singaporean was a conscious choice, a decision. At what point did that move from the head to the heart?
I cannot psychoanalyse myself that way. All I know is that we were put in circumstances that required us to identify ourselves as Singaporean. We became Singaporeans when the Malaysians put up the immigration and customs at the Causeway, and we had to do likewise. You had to show your identity card. Before that, you just passed through.
In a way, we welcomed it. Otherwise, the whole of the Malayan Railway land would be flooded with Malay squatters. Jobs here paid higher. That's how history is made. We were dealt this pack of cards. We must make the best of it. We've not done too badly.

Something special
This is a near miracle. When you come in, you are joining an exceptionally outstanding organisation... It came about by a stroke of luck, if you like, plus hard work, plus an imaginative, original team. And I think we can carry on. Singapore can only stay secure and stable, provided it's outstanding.

MM LEE, on why Singapore is more than just a land of opportunity


(with thanks to ST www.straitstimes.com )